Caster Semenya Is A Lady...And A Dude

Ok so guaranteed this will be an Oscar-nominated film in a few years. I figured lets get a head start by coming up with a few potential titles...

"Best of Both Worlds: The Caster Semenya Story"

"Caster, the friendly hermaphrodite"

"Some Like it Really Hot: A ‘Tail’ of an African Runner"

"Searching for Semen: The Caster Semenya Story"

Lets get this going everybody!!

A normal male has 40-60x the testosterone levels of a female. 3x higher level will put Caster in the upper limit of females, pregnant women, or pre-pubescent boys. So this level does not make her a male.The existence of testes, which obviously are not producing enough testosterone to influence a complete male sexual development, by default she will be more female than male, and that is why she has female external genetalia. Never has a questionable gender in sports been handled in such a puplic and humiliating manner. Those responsible should be ashamed of themselves. I wish Caster all the luck for the future.

What's so F-ed about this is "her" family knew the deal way before the testing was done. They brought this public humilitaion on "her" themselves. Caster cannot be aloud compete with natural women any more than a woman who takes steroid/growth hormone can. It's an unfair advantage. Sad that the only advantage to being born this way is illegal within sports.

"It is what it is"

This is just a teenager, it doesn't matter if its a boy or girl, the age is important here. Caster isn't very mature and probably can't handle this news, who could?

I hope they get her counseling.

And the person that said she would have had pap smears, have you seen where she grew up? I doubt she has had one.

Submitted by Anirul on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 3:20pm.

Look I'm agreeing with you and all I'm saying just from my experience is that each gender abnormality is different and until we get (hopefully to see) the detailed medical report (not the Australian tabloid leaks), it could be a combination of things and not entirely clear cut.

Also I was thinking of something else even, back in the apartheid days, many of the agents used to do, illegal, human experiments on many of the township people especially the uneducated poor ones. So it could be that her mother was injected and experimented on while she was pregnant. Look its a long shot (but it came to mind as a remote possibility).

http://ccrweb.ccr.uct.ac.za/archive/two/10_3/Amnesty.html

Dr Wouter Basson was the head of the Apartheid government's biological and chemical warfare experiments and in the 80s and up until the early 90s (Caster was born in 1991). This programme was still active up until the early 90s

Maybe her parents can even get genetics tests themselves to see if it can shed any light on her condition or the gender abnormality issue in general since it could just be a genuine random occurence.

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Stars101, I understand. We just see different sides of the same coin. You deal with the biological aspect, I get them as they deal with the psychological fallout. You classify them, I help them deal with how the world sees them and how they see the world. Kind of a partnership, ya know? You see things I don't, and I see things you don't. Heck, since I'm in more of the counseling aspect of psychology, I see stuff the research psychologists don't (and vice versa).

And people... her testosterone doesn't affect her. Ok, maybe this explains it better... her body is IMMUNE to it. Think of her Androgen Insensitivity as a vaccine of sorts. When YOU get vaccinated for say... measles.... you can spend a whole week with someone who has measles and never get it because your body is immune to it. Caster can spend weeks pumping her body with steroids/hormones, and her body ignores it, it's immune. Her AIS has been "immune" to testosterone since conception.

It's not an advantage at all since XX females DO respond to the small amount of testosterone in our bodies, and that amount keeps our estrogen in check. Caster's body doesn't respond as well. Her body (externally) is no different from the gymnasts and other female atletes who train almost 24-7 and eat protein-rich diets.

~*Anirul*~
www.myspace.com/dollmaker

Bullshit people - come on, there is no way in hell she did not know. Is there any woman here who has not had a pap smear by her age? Let alone athletes are always getting physicals ALL the time, blood work, etc. They all knew. Now possibly she was not trying to deceive but 3 times the normal testosterone level is not a fair competition to other women. Longer legs and arms are one thing but when your hormones are basically turning you into a man it doesn't matter if you have a vag it unfair competition.

I think this situation is so wrong. I don't think any way in hell that she knew about this and was purposely trying to deceive the race organizers! Maybe she should've been raised as a boy, but she still has a vagina and it's too late now. Her loved ones and she identify as female and have all her lives.

Besides, if we criticize her for using her genetic advantage, how far do we go? Ban Michael Phelps from competing because of his freakishly long limbs that give him advantage in swimming? Ban celebrities from getting attention/money through their looks because they were genetically blessed with pretty faces and/or thin bodies?

I still think she has the talent. Keep running, girl!

I feel sorry for her. She sounds like a man though - but it's probably the excess testosterone. Here's a clip of her speaking in an interview:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/sportvideo/?bcpid=3338950001&bctid=3489...

_________________I <3 STEWIE!____________________

Submitted by angel_i on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 12:38pm.

We'll lose hopelessly against Australia as well LOL, the golden rule of going to war is: only declare war on countries you can win against.

LOL so maybe we can just go to war with Ethiopia instead or Senegal.

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

@starsez: Yeah - I don't want to see y'all go to war either. So stoopit. But they really should shut up about it until they get some definitive answers and an action plan for how to deal with it. All this half-reporting is just making it that much worse.

♥ Threadkilla!
Urban Dictionary results:
family (525 up, 125 down)
A bunch of people who hate each other and eat dinner together.

Submitted by angel_i on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 12:18pm

Look as far I know and until I see the actual official published medical report on Caster as to what she actually is (I can't say for sure).

But the technical definition of a hermaphradite is someone who has two external genitalia (one male, one female)

Clearly from the leaks on the initial reports it seems that she has a gender abnormality (however most people are familiar only with the term hermaphradite when it comes to gender abnormality problems)

So the Australian newspaper (tabloid) that published this was incorrect since shes not technically an hermaphradite if she has internal testes (its some other gender abnormality).

However I understand in a way why they used the term because most of their readership would only be familiar with the word hermaphradite

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Submitted by Bunny Rabbit on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 12:25pm.

Submitted by nocgirl on Thu, 09/10/2009 - 10:58pm.

What kind of a name is Caster?
----------------------------------------

Well, her mother's name is Dorcus.

****************************************

I am SUCH an asshole for how much that made me laugh. I need a flogging.

♥ Threadkilla!
Urban Dictionary results:
family (525 up, 125 down)
A bunch of people who hate each other and eat dinner together.

Submitted by angel_i on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 12:18pm.

I'm just worried we really will go to war. South African politicians are hot blooded. LOL

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Submitted by nocgirl on Thu, 09/10/2009 - 10:58pm.

What kind of a name is Caster?
----------------------------------------

Well, her mother's name is Dorcus.

@Bunny Rabbit:

I'm gonna try to be nice but I am getting REALLY frustrated by scientific folk talking around my points. Of COURSE her family wouldn't think about it. Even just culturally, even if they MAY have considered there was something odd about her - if she had a vagina they would just leave it at that. "Like it was just mentioned, plenty of female athletes (think gymnasts, runners) don't get a period." - I mentioned that, in fact.

I'm talking about the 10 EXPERTS they needed to "see" her undescended testes...which are now, what? Descended? Cuz she's hermaphrodite, right? Not AIS? I mean - come on. I don't study science but I'm a smart girl - alls I need is a straight answer.

Thank you for that update stars. This is some bad shit. A lot of people should be in a lot of trouble for all this and we all need to get out of that girl's business.

Altho - Part of me wants us to keep on her JUST becuz I'm scared for her. Where she lives she could get killed just for being different like that. A close media eye would thwart that, a least a little.

♥ Threadkilla!
Urban Dictionary results:
family (525 up, 125 down)
A bunch of people who hate each other and eat dinner together.

Submitted by stars101Sez_Iha... on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 12:05pm.
Latest Update

Athlete Caster Semenya has pulled out....

*snort*
_____________________________________________

"I HAVE NO MORE GOTTDAMN CUPCAKES!" 08.18.09 The delicate flower that is Mrs. Bradiful Bitch

Submitted by angel_i on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 11:26am.

Another thing I can't figure out about these scientists is whether or not they have eyes. Not becuz of how she looks on the outside but if, on the inside, she has no womb and no uterus and a set of descended testes - well, how hard can that be to see?!? How can this test be hard? I totally don't get it.
------------------------------------------------

She has undescended testes, so they are internal and not visible. Gender is more that what you see from the naked eye. Look, I can go to any Home Depot and see plenty of women that look and act just like men. Some women are just more masculine looking than others. In Caster's case, maybe she was born a hermaphrodite, but to her parents and the midwife or doctor who delievered her in her country village, she looked female at birth, and was consequently raised female. Like it was just mentioned, plenty of female athletes (think gymnasts, runners) don't get a period. She's 18. Assuming she's been training hard for at least 4 years, there is nothing abnormal about her not having a period at 14, 15, or older. I feel so bad for her, but she and her family are handling themselves with a lot of grace.

Latest Update

"Athlete Caster Semenya has pulled out of her return to competitive sport amid growing fears over the psychological impact of rumours about her sex.

The 18-year-old withdrew from a cross-country race in South Africa tomorrow after it was widely reported that a leaked sex test reveals she is a hermaphrodite. Her coach, Michael Seme, said she will not run because she is "not feeling well".

South Africa condemned the international media reports as an invasion of the teenager's privacy and threatened a "third world war" if the women's 800m champion is disqualified from athletics.

The process by which Semenya's most intimate physical details have become a public talking point intensified when Australia's Sydney Daily Telegraph said that she had no womb or ovaries, but internal male testes which were producing extraordinary amounts of testosterone.

The strain of the ordeal began to show on Semenya's family. When her mother, Dorcas, was contacted by one newspaper for a response, she wept and demanded: "What do you want me to do?" Semenya's father, Jacob, said people who believed his daughter was not a woman were sick. "They are crazy. Are they God?"

Both the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) and the media were condemned today for failing to respect Semenya's human rights.

Jacob Zuma, the South African president, said: "We have a girl who has performed and won. I don't think we should play with people's lives and privacy. Why should we not respect the privilege between doctor and patient?"

His sports minister, Makhenkesi Stofile, said it would be unjust for the IAAF to exclude Semenya from competing as a woman. "I think it would be the third world war," he said. "We will go to the highest levels in contesting such a decision. I think it would be totally unfair and totally unjust."

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Submitted by Green Is Good on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 10:05am.

As I bitched earlier, if Caster hadn't come in FIRST, she would have been able to maintain her dignity and PRIVACY over her own body. She should have refused the examinations and testing.
************************************************
Agreed. Fuck them if they only decided to test her after she won. I cry FOUL. She should keep that medal and then they can decide what to do next.

I can't believe I'm posting here again BUT - they tricked her. They said they were only doing drug tests. And then they did this other test...

She never had a chance.

Another thing I can't figure out about these scientists is whether or not they have eyes. Not becuz of how she looks on the outside but if, on the inside, she has no womb and no uterus and a set of descended testes - well, how hard can that be to see?!? How can this test be hard? I totally don't get it.

♥ Threadkilla!
Urban Dictionary results:
family (525 up, 125 down)
A bunch of people who hate each other and eat dinner together.

If you are born without a womb or ovaries....you are a man. Give back the medal.

********************************************

I've written a letter to MK...saying...I...love...youuuuuu.

Sounds like possibly an androgen insensitive XY. External female genitals, testes as gonads, no wolfian or mullerian ducts, testosterone, MIF, and DHT hormones. Gender for this type of pseudohermaphrodite is classified as a female.

the testes aren't that internal...just look at that bulge!

It burrrrrrrns!!!! - Miss Coco Peru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKNZICoKSdA

Well everyone knows about her private parts because it's basically a man racing in a womans race. Now if she had kept a lower profile....it's a toss on keeping the medal or not keeping the model, you can't help but feel sorry for her/him. That's fucked up.

Submitted by Meeshie on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 7:32am.

That's it in a nutshell (oops, awkward). If she doesn't have a penis, she's a woman. Done.

What, are they now going to now test every female athlete who competes for their testosterone levels and whether they have a clitoris?

Are they also going to check all the male athletes to make sure they have cocks, too?

As I bitched earlier, if Caster hadn't come in FIRST, she would have been able to maintain her dignity and PRIVACY over her own body. She should have refused the examinations and testing.

Inmates in correctional facilities have more personal liberty.

Poor girl.

I can believe that she and her coaches didn't know about this. Chances are she's been training for this all her life, and because intense physical training stunts normal hormone production in the brain, the fact she never got a period is completely normal. Female athletes often don't.

There is no doubt she is a super-woman, but its not like she flew out of the womb covered in muscles. This is years of intense training that has nothing to do with extra testosterone. There are female body builders that are ten times her size.

I hope she turns into the she-hulk and kills a bitch if they try to take her medal.

And that this whole thing doesn't ruin her entire life.

when she really didn't know that something about her was unusual, the people who made her compete are the ones to blame. or maybe the whole organisation - prevention is worth more than the whole world talking about someones private parts.
on the other hand - she had an unfair advantage - why are there dope controls when a country just can pick up someone who has an obvious advantage and to insist their win was fair? the gold medal is not about caster - the gold is about the country and people she has started for.
i myself would be ashamed if my country would do so (no offense) - but i'm also ashamed that someones life is being destroyed because some people couldn't get enough.
and perfect that it happened in good old germany - one can always blame them.

To have races be more fair, they should just categorize people by their muscle mass and hormone levels. The Male/Female system is unfair and offensive to transgender people.

---------------------------------------------
Brand, Jen, and Angelina sing about love

http://youtube.com/watch?v=baSNJpfpjbE

Her testosterone level shouldnt be an issue here. She is a woman, she grew up like a woman, she was raised as a woman and just because she has extra junk doesnt mean they should take away her medals.

The nerve of this people!!

Is not as if she was a man before and then underwent gender reassignment surgery and THEN went to compete. She was always a woman. Poor Caster having the world know her nether regions business.

I say let her keep her damn medal. She ran her ass off. You dont see the Chinese government giving the medals of the 12 yr olds thay competed during the Olympics do ya?! So why her?

Sorry, but I'm not buying that she and her trainers didn't have a clue on her physical status. As someone else on her posted already, anyone that looks at her can tell that something is amiss. Because of the testosterone levels she has, she is competing with an advantage over other competitors & I don't think that is right or fair. I think she should return the medal. I agree, this isn't at all about treating her as a human being & with dignity, it's about her competing with an unfair advantage over her competitors.

www.theanimalrescuesite.com - Click everyday to help animals in shelters
www.petfinder.com - Enter your zip code & find pets available in your area for adoption.

This is not about accepting people for who they are and all that touchy feely stuff. It is about having an unfair advantage over other competitors in a sporting event. If she has testes, she has testosterone which puts her at an unfair advantage. It would be as if she were taking steroids.

Submitted by Green Is Good on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 6:33am.

Completely agreed.

(¯`'•.¸(¯`'•.¸♥¸.•'´¯)¸.•'´¯)

2007~It was a truly magical time in Shitneyland.

"Sam put drugs in Britney's biscuits"

Gia,

Yes that was an episode of House except that chick was a supermodel who had sex with her/his father. Gross times.

you're about as useful as a cock-flavored lollipop - Patches O'Houlihan

Is there any significance that her first name sounds like CASTRATE and her last name sounds like SEMEN??? Is this really an accident, or an elaborate psyop?

Didnt I see this on an episode of House once??

There is no way Caster or her family didn't know something was up a long time ago.

She should have to give back the medal because she isn't physically operating on the same level as the other women.

How horrible that everyone in the world knows the business about her lady/man parts!

Isn't this the same issue that Jamie Curtis dealt with?

In a country where 'corrective rape' is prevalent against women who do not conform to the sexual norm, I hope this intense violatory interest in one teenager from a small town's genitals does not destroy her right to a normal life.

This whole thing makes me extremely uncomfortable.

If she has a twat, she's a girl. If she has a dick, she's a boy. Simple as that. Who cares what's inside. Let her keep her medal.

I really feel sorry for this girl. If Caster had come in 3rd, 4th, whatever, any place but FIRST, this gender checking crap wouldn't have happened.

SHE identifies HERself as a female. Done. And making the personal business going on in her pants public stinks.

TEAM CASTER! Let her compete in women's running again.

You know Serena & Venus Williams are no where to be found....they know they're next!

------
www.myspace.com/Dreamkilla26

It is matters like these which clearly display how nonsensical our categorisations of the world are.

Maybe our understanding of human beings as falling into the categories "man" and "woman" are grossly exaggerated and stereotyped? Maybe there are not only two genders? And what makes us all say that she is a man because she has internal testes, despite the fact that she also has a vagina?

As with transsexuals, I think it comes down to what she herself identifies as.

When it comes to competition, it is a bit of a grey area as any winner or loser will be dependent on their own biological advantages or disadvantages. Where do you draw the line?

I just wish people would question their very basic understandings of the world a little more often. Maybe then we can finally learn to accept each other's differences without forcing people to feel pressure to be something they're not.

i'm a south african.
i think it's fucked up that a newspaper in australia runs this story when the reports haven't been confirme or released and caster herself hasn't been told. depsite her manly vibe, hermaphrodite or not she's still human.
fucking aussies. douche water is all i have to say - but what more can you expect from a country that started out as a prison. sore sore losers.

To my knowledge, the results haven't been confirmed although the tests are completed. The male/female bit is still speculation. Regardless, the whole thing is retarded and a serious abuse of human rights. If it turns out she does have male and female parts, she wasn't cheating and wouldn't be stripped of her metal.

That's a dude who needed surgery as a kid to be a fully developed boy. That is not a chick.

Like I said, that's a DUDE!

_____________________________________________
I'm countin' on Jesus at this point.

Submitted by Anirul on Thu, 09/10/2009 - 11:40pm.

I'm actually a biochemistry major, who has done subjects like genetics, human anatomy, primate anatomy, physiology, biotechnology, etymology and developmental biology. Yes I've heard of AIS however while doing developmental biology and studying not only genetic abnormalities but developmental abnormalities like a twin who ingest the other twin in the womb and as a result if the twins were fraternal and one of them were female and ingested a male (the female would have higher levels of testosterone in this case as well).

Also as in the case of Siamese twins where is no clear cut formula or pattern (some are joined at the head, others at the hip, some share an endocrine system, organs, or in some cases each has their own set, besides a case of a parasitic twin) and some can be separated, others can't without literally killing one of the twins as in the parasitic case (and some parents opt to either let both die or just to save one) so too in the case of genetic abnormalities where things aren't cut and dried either.

I know how to sex lobsters, get sperm from a sea urchin, sex locusts, bonobos, chimpanzees and how to get sperm from a baboon, and I did a project on the evolutionary factors resposible for gamete selection where I investigated the differences between the male testes body to weight ratio and sperm volume production in bonobs, chimpanzees, and humans. I can tell you exactly biologically who has the biggest sperm and biggest testes among primates (chimpanzees as a result of their multi-partner mating system)

So beyotch please :-) Just kidding about the beyotch part but I really have studied some of these things

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Submitted by Anirul on Thu, 09/10/2009 - 11:47pm.

Angel_I... difference between me and you is ... I actually know what I am talking about.
************************************

The difference between you and me is that you have an agenda.

I'm not claiming to have knowledge - I'm just reading what you're writing. I get it. It's not easy to assess. If you take a minute and really read what I'm writing you'll see that

1. I am not contradicting you. I am taking offense to your "holier-than-thou" attitude.
2. I am concerned about the behaviours of the officials - not the girl, the family, the village.
3. I keep saying "if". I'm not pretending I know how this went down. I'm keeping my options open while expressing my opinions.

♥ Threadkilla!
Urban Dictionary results:
family (525 up, 125 down)
A bunch of people who hate each other and eat dinner together.

Angel_I... difference between me and you is ... I actually know what I am talking about.

I've spent the last year studying gender-related developmental issues. I at least have a decent idea what I am talking about. Unlike you, I also have information to back it up.

So... when you spout of drivel to contradict me without a bit of an informative source... why "listen" to you?

~*Anirul*~
www.myspace.com/dollmaker

The way I see it, the medal is now the least of this girl's problems. If I were runner up I'd insist Caster keep it anyway. Hell of a consolation prize.

I've been reading about the big umbrella known as hermaphrodite or "intersex" and all the ignorant comments surrounding it. Even in the best situations Caster will be facing an uphill battle against stereotypes, ignorance and hatred. A lot of which will probably come from herself.

I chalk Caster and her family not questioning her gender to being too close to the situation. Seriously, have you looked at your manlier than average sister and ever thought she was a dude? Not to mention they may have never imagined it was possible. I won't make assumptions about their schooling in this subject.

How she acted growing up would've been no indicator. If it weren't for the fact I have a child this would make me question my own very tomboy upbringing. It makes sense now, sure, but then? I'm sure it never entered hers or her family's minds. I can counter every claim of how she or her folks should've known (late/no period, manly appearance, etc) with stories of women I know with similar symptoms who went on to have families of their own.

What makes me feel bad is she obviously worked her ass off to get here only to be treated like she just waltzed in and won on testosterone alone. It must be hard to see all the hard work trivialized.

Submitted by Anirul on Thu, 09/10/2009 - 11:40pm.

I've cited info from this site a bit today. Take some time to read it... esp Star and Angel_i. It explains the syndrome and the symptoms.
****************************************

Why me? You need to understand ME better, I think - not the other way around.

♥ Threadkilla!
Urban Dictionary results:
family (525 up, 125 down)
A bunch of people who hate each other and eat dinner together.